View Full Version : Any tips on how to combat Employer's Position Statement
01-11-2012, 12:34 AM
I got my position statement today from my employer regarding racial discrimination and retaliation. They basically denied all my allegations and the EEOC investigator wants me to submit direct evidence that the employer was indeed racially motivated and to prove that I suffered an adverse action. The investigator is aking me to submit all of this to her by a certain time frame. She also asks me to declare if I'm interested in a settlement, in my reply to the employer's position statement. For all of those that went through this step, are there any tips you can give me based on your experience on how to fight back their statements before i proceed? In the letter, the investigator also said that if she finds no evidence, she will issue me an RTS letter in bringing this to federal court, if I decide to. I currently don't have a lawyer and can't afford one.
01-11-2012, 12:57 AM
I'm not surprised that they LIED since that's pretty much what all these ABUSIVE employers do. My friend that still works in hell received her Right To Sue letter as well as a phone call from the EEOC investigator letting her know that her employer DENIED ALL HER ACCUSATIONS which was such a HUGE lie and very easy to prove.
Justice Delayed & Denied
01-11-2012, 02:19 AM
Racial discrimination is so very hard to prove. Unless the perpetrator admits it straight up, it's like trying to climb a flag pole with greased hands. The retaliation is easier to prove because of the adverse treatment you've received after you had complained to HR about the racial discrimination. If you had documented (e.g. your supervisor's damming e-mails) each incident so far, you should include a copy with your reply to the EEOC investigator. If you had witnesses (i.e. co-workers) to the racial event, if they're willing to sign and swear an affidavit, then you're fortunate.
The EEOC loves to "mediate" a so called reasonable settlement. "Reasonable" is defined as the minimum amount of money your employer and the EEOC feel would make your complaint go away. You're not going to become rich that way. Attend the mediation session with the view that you'll turn down the meager settlement offer because you're a person of high values and principles. Take your chances that the EEOC will find in your favor. If not, take the EEOC's RTS letter to a good employment attorney.
01-11-2012, 02:41 AM
I already tried to go through mediation, employer rejected it. Now I'm in the stage of providing a rebuttal to company's position statement to my allegations, I already find some loop holes.
I'm trying to prove racial discrimination by providing an organization chart of the racial make up of that group and also a power point presentation from the company VP of how they view certain races. Unfortunately, I belong to that race they talked about in the document. I don't know if that is enough to prove their motives that they are racist.
My supervisor has not and will not write anything, everything is done verbally. If I ask a question by email that could possibly incriminate the company of something, he will not reply to the email. He will only reply, not by him voluntarily coming to me to give his answer verbally, I have to come to him and follow up on the answer, that's how strategic it is at this point for him. They will not, at any cost, write email. Only emails I receive from him are things related to work and getting work done.
The settlement was included in the statement by the EEOC investigator asking me if I would like to request it from the company. The settlement has nothing to do with the mediation, since mediation failed.
The way they responded to allegations was more like a "no, we didn't do that, prove it" kind of answer. But in some answers, even though they wrote it in that way, it was a lie in some areas. IN other areas, they came up with last minute explanations on why they did what they did, and the answer they gave was not the same answer they gave me during the company internal complaint and investigation process. So I'm already seeing some inconsistency.
Should I, at this point, request my personnel file? Or should I wait after I get my performance reviews for 2011?
01-11-2012, 06:35 AM
Simple answer to your question. Write your rebuttal giving your side of the situation and insure you leave nothing out. When you request the settlement you are looking for be realistic and not over bearing!
Look for everything you do to be denied by the employer and just complete the process as it is required by law for you to do, if you intend on going further say federal or even state law suit wait out the 180 days for the RTS and in the mean time seek legal councel as you will need it.
01-11-2012, 12:36 PM
Of course your employer is going to deny all wrong doing. The position statement that my employer sent in response to the case that myself and the only other female employee filed, I believe only helped us because they contradicted themselves many times over in it. One paragraph stated that (we) the females never requested further training and two paragraphs later, they stated that Our request for further training was never denied (just one example of many).
Read their position over carefully and look for those kinds of discrepencies. Tell your side and refer to documented instances when and if you can. In my response I brought attention to the descrepencies in the position statement. ie. Page one paragraph 3 the employer stated ..... However on page three they stated .... which is the complete opposite from the statement on page one paragraph 3. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't ovelooked.
Yes! request your files. When I received mine there were things whited out, pages missing. Thank goodness I kept copies of all reviews and memos and any piece of paperwork from the company on my own prior to requesting my files, So then I had proof that they tampered with my files. ( because I had copies of the originals) I requested my files early on because I had a gut feeling, and that gut feeling was right on the mark.
01-11-2012, 03:02 PM
I agree and request the personnel file ASAP but don't be surprised if they have *cleaned* it.
01-11-2012, 08:52 PM
You will need to show PRETEXT or that the reasons stated by your employer are pretext to hide discrimination. Examples of such evidence include but not limited to the following:
1) evidence that reasons advanced by Respondent is not believable
2) Evidence that similarly situated individuals outside of your protected class (race) were treated differently
3) Evidnce of bias by Respndent's decision makers towards persons in your protected class (race) i.e. jokes, comments, remarks about your race
3. The plaintiff must then present facts to show an inference of discrimination. The plaintiff may do so either by showing that the defendant’s explanation is insufficient and only a pretext for discrimination or by otherwise proving that the defendant's actions used one of the listed unlawful discriminatory parameters.
In practice, the third step is the most difficult step for plaintiffs to achieve successfully.
The significance of this case is that it allows the plaintiff (employee) to shift the questions to be proved from whether the defendant has acted “because of” an unlawful discriminatory factor to whether the defendant has lied about the reasons it took action.
01-12-2012, 01:10 AM
Alot of my evidence are recounts of meetings and notes I took in a notebook that I take home, is this good enough as evidence? Or does it have to be in writing from an employer that "we discussed such and such..blah blah blah? I took note of the employer's responses during the internal investigation of why I wasn't chosen for the promotion and when I filed with the EEOC, they gave the EEOC a different reason.
I plan to present this as evidence to refute employer's response to the investigator:
Recount of what they told me was different from response they told EEOC
An organization chart showing the races of each individual in their group and demonstrating that my race is not part of their staff
And a power point presentation on how upper management views my race,
Is this good enough evidence or do I have to come up with something else?
01-12-2012, 01:17 AM
Your notebook is great evidence but even better is if you can get an email *dialogue* going with the perpetrator so you have proof of what that person has been saying. I used to *smooze* my ex-sup. After she would chew me out in her office, I would go back to my desk and send her an email like, "I just wanted to make sure I understood everything you said so that I do things correctly and the way you want me to so please tell me if I heard everything the way you meant it." Then I would say what she said and since I had *smoozed* her, she was often stupid enough to admit that was EXACTLY what she said to me (including things like how I "seemed to think that my health problems were the reason why I was making mistakes" when I would have a HUGE asthma attack and end up at the ER).
Justice Delayed & Denied
01-12-2012, 03:35 AM
Your smoking gun is: "And a power point presentation on how upper management views my race".
01-12-2012, 06:22 AM
I gave that power point presentation slides to the EEOC last year and I dont know if the investigator even looked at it or noticed it was in my file. I am hoping that if she did notice it was in my file that she's not thinking its not admissible evidence.
Justice Delayed & Denied
01-12-2012, 12:32 PM
Why is everyone thinking that it's not admissible evidence? If it (your employer's power point presentation) isn't, then what is? Like I said before, it's the smoking gun that will incriminate your employer so I would suggest you point out this document specifically to the EEOC investigator today or the next time you speak to him/her.
The incompetent EEOC investigator is just that, incompetent. He/she is a useless P.O.S., if you know what I mean.
01-12-2012, 07:59 PM
I don't know WHY it wouldn't be admissible.......
Justice Delayed & Denied
01-12-2012, 09:53 PM
I've always said that damming evidence produced by the employer is the best evidence you'll ever have. That P.O.S. EEOC investigator was ignorant and an employer biased suckhole!
01-13-2012, 12:28 AM
01-13-2012, 03:27 AM
Basically the presentation says that this is how your race is viewed that you r not looked upon as leaders because you guys are quiet and hard workers and are only good in math. Your race is not viewed to be in managerial positions that other races are more likely to be chosen. But in order for you to become a manager you need to break out of the biases and start stepping it up.
To sum it up that's what the presentation is saying about my race. It's funny the guy that put the pp together. After I had reported about the pp...he left the company and retired supposedly after a few months
This guy was a vp .
Justice Delayed & Denied
01-13-2012, 04:11 AM
That VP (vulgar prick) who created the Power Point presentation was a racist who stereotyped Asians as non-managerial material. That's racial discrimination, plain and simple! No wonder he accepted a "golden parachute" retirement package and headed west to Phoenix Arizona!
01-13-2012, 06:07 AM
Actually they did send him out of state to another subsidiary of the company occupying a position of way less signifance than a VP. His title went from VP to a specialist of some sort. I think the A-hole racist execs retaliated against him and abandoned him there.
When that happened, an email was sent out by the execs saying that he is retiring and his position will be taken over by such and such. And rumors went around saying that he didn't get along with his manager, which I knew was BS and I knew it had to do with the pp, it caught up to him.
01-13-2012, 07:29 AM
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01-13-2012, 06:21 PM
A VP should KNOW better than just about anyone the rules regarding discrimination be it for race, creed, disability, etc. So him doing that powerpoint was a HUGE NO NO and just sending him away does not take the employers liability away with him.
01-15-2012, 01:44 AM
I am going to post what the EEOC has demanded me to answer with regards to my discrimination and retaliation complaint against employer. It is re-worded but the idea is still basically the same:
1)Provide evidence your treatment was due to your race
2)The other candidates who got the job over you were already level 3 professionals, provide direct evidence that you were a level 3 at the time they offered the positions to the others (when I interviewed for the position, i was only a level 2)
3)Provide direct evidence that you were a member of the standards team that you claim your supervisor removed you from
4)Identify another employee under your supervisor that changed their time in and time out without management approval
5)Identify any adverse action you incurred as a result of you being singled out.
01-15-2012, 01:47 AM
My supervisor and any others that deal with me regarding my case is very careful in writing emails. When they do write emails, it is nothing that will incriminate them. My best evidence at this point is power point slides, some past emails (that i think could incriminate them) and my notebook recollection of meetings.
I already know the employer and their crooks will deny they ever said what I wrote in the notebook.
Justice Delayed & Denied
01-15-2012, 02:13 PM
They (your company's big wigs) can deny all they want, but that Power Point presentation will be the noose that will hang their guilty necks from the courtroom's gallery. Bet on it!
01-15-2012, 07:59 PM
Too bad. My ex-sup is so SUPERFICIAL, VAIN and SELF CENTERED that all you have to do is *smooze*/flatter her and she gets so full of herself that she says things that totally incriminate her.
So, the questions from the EEOC. Do you have some form of proof for any or all of their questions??
And I agree with JD about the powerpoint presentation. That is a true *smoking gun*.
01-16-2012, 07:21 AM
Its hard for me to prove some of them. What am I going to do, ask my co-workers if my supervisor questioned them or gave them a hard time about the issues the EEOC had questions about? I doubt it, the law department will tell them to lie..
That's hard for me to prove when the treatment I received, they are asking for proof who else got treated teh same way
One of the questions had to do with FMLA, I asked for the time off, and told the EEOC that they questioned me and gave me a hard time about it when in the first place, its a federal right. They denied they ever questioned me about it...
Do you think all my written recounts will be the categorized as "he said she said" in a court room? They can always deny everything I have to say and ask me to prove they said it....
Justice Delayed & Denied
01-16-2012, 12:03 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way when I reiterate that littlelulu and I have identified for you a "smoking gun", i.e. that VP's incriminating Power Point presentation in which he expressed to the audience that he thought Asians weren't management material due to them being too quiet and non-assertive (or something to that effect). That kind of personal stereotyping is a form of racism, i.e. discrimination. What more proof do you need? It only takes one bullet fired at a man's heart to take him down. Do you get what I mean?
Yes, your co-workers are scared to rally around you. No, HR won't ask them to lie. HR won't have to do that because human nature says to self "Let him fend for himself. I have a career, a family and a mortgage to pay off".
01-16-2012, 05:52 PM
MAYBE one of your co-workers has a backbone and will not lie for your employer.......
01-17-2012, 03:19 AM
Ya judging by the nature of ppl in my dept. no one will back me up. The organization I'm in is the type that if u screw up you are put on blast of your screw up in front of your peers. Imagine a case like mine? They will make up stuff to protect their skins. I will use the power point slide and go max on the perpetrators. No one will lie for me...the company is already in alot of big trouble on bad publicity caused by other issues.
One more thing the pp slides always reference other books and statistics on the biases and leadership preferences. Does that free the employer from liability? They can always say "oh we were just quoting this source in our pp"
Justice Delayed & Denied
01-17-2012, 04:35 AM
Just because so and so had books published that denigrated other races by stereotyping them does NOT excuse that big wig VP from referring to those books in his racist Power Point presentation. We all know some of the typical stereotyping, e.g. blacks eat a lot of watermelons, Asian youths hang out in gangs and push drugs, etc.
01-17-2012, 08:19 PM
It's really too bad that there is such a LACK of moral ethics in this country. It used to be that your word and a handshake MEANT SOMETHING. I could NEVER watch someone be tormented this way and turn my back on them - which is probably another reason that I never promoted BEFORE my ex-sup went on the attack, because management KNEW I would not kiss their butts and hurt the workers. And that's EXACTLY why the social services supervisor was demoted to a line staff worker - because he protected and stood up for his staff.
01-24-2012, 01:00 AM
I just submitted my reply to my Eeoc investigator to my employers response to my charge. My god it took me combined maybe around 24 hours to write that thing. Now I understand why ppl hire lawyers. It's too much work and time consuming. Also it gets mind boggling at times. You need to make sure you cover all your bases and nothing you say is contradicting. Anyway wish me luck,
01-24-2012, 01:29 AM
Not only am I sending you good luck but also my most positive thoughts AND crossing my fingers and toes for you!!
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